Question About Houses

[Dottie]

The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter. I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct. Any ideas? I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house. I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on. But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

[Kjell Pettersson]

I agree with the idea that insurance is an eight house matter. Trying
to wrap my mind around the idea of it as a fifth house matter, and
trying to understand what the person who said that may have meant,
perhaps they were thinking of insurance from the "other side".

I mean, insurance companies have to speculate, and for those who own
insurance companies, or stocks in them, there is a fair share of
speculation going on. I don't have the details, but I think the
English insurance company Lloyds had a crash a decade or two ago, and
that would be the result of some kind of speculation.

However, for the client who has signed with an insurance company, I
see no similar element of speculation, so for private citizens I do
not think it is relevant to think of insurance as a fifth house
matter.

/Kjell

Post by Dottie
The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter.  I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct.  Any ideas?  I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house.  I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on.  But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

[John Roth]

Insurance is pretty much an 8th house matter - like any other
financial business, it's other people's money. Having worked for an
insurance company for most of my life, I can assure you that there is
very little speculation going on. An individual contract may pay off
or not, but given enough of them there is very little doubt. It's
called the law of Large Numbers, and it works for the same reason that
the house always wins in a casino, regardless of whether anyone hits
the jackpot in the slots.

Homeowner's insurance in some areas has a significant problem because
the losses can be correlated - as for hurricane damage. You'll have
average losses for years, and then suddenly - wipeout! I've been out
of the business for a while, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the
houseing bubble doesn't have something to do with the price of
homeowner's insurance as well; if the mortgage is for more than the
current value of the house, then there's a significant issue of moral
hazard.

BTW - Lloyds isn't an insurance company. It's a consortium of high
risk insurance brokers.

John Roth

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I agree with the idea that insurance is an eight house matter. Trying
to wrap my mind around the idea of it as a fifth house matter, and
trying to understand what the person who said that may have meant,
perhaps they were thinking of insurance from the "other side".
I mean, insurance companies have to speculate, and for those who own
insurance companies, or stocks in them, there is a fair share of
speculation going on. I don't have the details, but I think the
English insurance company Lloyds had a crash a decade or two ago, and
that would be the result of some kind of speculation.
However, for the client who has signed with an insurance company, I
see no similar element of speculation, so for private citizens I do
not think it is relevant to think of insurance as a fifth house
matter.
/Kjell

Post by Dottie
The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter.  I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct.  Any ideas?  I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house.  I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on.  But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

[Kjell Pettersson]

OK, I am with you. I was thinking of stuff like trying to appreciate
risk, and that there would be an element of speculation in that.

If I remember things correctly the thing with Llloyds -- the non-
insurance company :-) -- was that an unexpected number of disasters
happened in a short time, which I thought in principle could be the
death for insurance companies too. But I will update my view now!

/Kjell

Post by John Roth
Insurance is pretty much an 8th house matter - like any other
financial business, it's other people's money. Having worked for an
insurance company for most of my life, I can assure you that there is
very little speculation going on. An individual contract may pay off
or not, but given enough of them there is very little doubt. It's
called the law of Large Numbers, and it works for the same reason that
the house always wins in a casino, regardless of whether anyone hits
the jackpot in the slots.
Homeowner's insurance in some areas has a significant problem because
the losses can be correlated - as for hurricane damage. You'll have
average losses for years, and then suddenly - wipeout! I've been out
of the business for a while, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the
houseing bubble doesn't have something to do with the price of
homeowner's insurance as well; if the mortgage is for more than the
current value of the house, then there's a significant issue of moral
hazard.
BTW - Lloyds isn't an insurance company. It's a consortium of high
risk insurance brokers.
John Roth

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I agree with the idea that insurance is an eight house matter. Trying
to wrap my mind around the idea of it as a fifth house matter, and
trying to understand what the person who said that may have meant,
perhaps they were thinking of insurance from the "other side".
I mean, insurance companies have to speculate, and for those who own
insurance companies, or stocks in them, there is a fair share of
speculation going on. I don't have the details, but I think the
English insurance company Lloyds had a crash a decade or two ago, and
that would be the result of some kind of speculation.
However, for the client who has signed with an insurance company, I
see no similar element of speculation, so for private citizens I do
not think it is relevant to think of insurance as a fifth house
matter.
/Kjell

Post by Dottie
The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter.  I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct.  Any ideas?  I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house.  I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on.  But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

[Kjell Pettersson]

Post by Kjell Pettersson
If I remember things correctly the thing with Llloyds -- the non-
insurance company :-) -- was that an unexpected number of disasters
happened in a short time, which I thought in principle could be the
death for insurance companies too.

Correction:
Lloyds did not go down. My choice of words may give that impression,
but that is not so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_London

[Dan H]

To play "devil's advocate" 5=2+4-1. i.e. insurance payment (V?) is an ending (IV) to one's possessions (II) upon loss or death (VIII). Enjoy (V) :)

[unknown]

Post by Dan H
To play "devil's advocate" 5=2+4-1. i.e. insurance
payment (V?) is an ending (IV) to one's possessions
(II) upon loss or death (VIII). Enjoy (V) :)

True, 5th is the 4th of the 2nd (and of course the 2nd of the 4th). But to
turn the chart, the houses first need their own meanings - it's no good
defining the 5th as the 4th of the 2nd unless you first define the 4th and
2nd for themselves. Anyway, surely the insurance payment isn't the ending
of the possessions, it replaces them after something else (8th?) destroys
them.

[Chris]

Post by Dottie
The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter.  I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct.  Any ideas?  I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house.  I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on.  But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

8th House: taxation, shared resources, credit, debt, insurance, big
business, other people's money, sex, death, and transformation.

Insurance is not speculation, by any stretch. The way insurance works
is that it does not pay replacement amounts, just current value or
reduced value or the value set by the terms of the contract.

8th House deals with sobering reality, often mixed with loss.
Windfalls come from legacy, but at the cost of the person who
accumulated the amount to begin with. it's all reduced value through
loss.

Insurance is about trying to avoid a total loss; this is not gambling
to grow a profit. You pay ahead against startover capital, so the
safety net costs you. Credit works the same way, paying interest to
use someone else's money. The choice is honest debt or deeper debt
through using credit. Insurance falls into the same mold.

Now the insurance company may use your money to speculate, but it's
their chart it comes up 5th House activity, not in yours. Insurance
is just a hedge against future loss, not about profit or
profiteering. Insurance is an expense. You don't get rich on
insurance.

-Chris

[unknown]

Post by Chris

Post by Dottie
The Newscope column on Neptune Club discussed insurance last week and
said that insurance was an 8th house matter. I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.
Just wondered which is correct. Any ideas? I live in Florida where
home owners insurance is out of sight and getting worse -- and Saturn
is currently in my fifth house. I haven't won the lottery
either....so I knew I probably wouldn't be winning any sweepstakes
until it moves on. But now I am worrying about insurance....just
wondered what you'll thought.

8th House: taxation, shared resources, credit, debt, insurance, big
business, other people's money, sex, death, and transformation.
Insurance is not speculation, by any stretch. The way insurance works
is that it does not pay replacement amounts, just current value or
reduced value or the value set by the terms of the contract.
8th House deals with sobering reality, often mixed with loss.
Windfalls come from legacy, but at the cost of the person who
accumulated the amount to begin with. it's all reduced value through
loss.
Insurance is about trying to avoid a total loss; this is not gambling
to grow a profit. You pay ahead against startover capital, so the
safety net costs you. Credit works the same way, paying interest to
use someone else's money. The choice is honest debt or deeper debt
through using credit. Insurance falls into the same mold.
Now the insurance company may use your money to speculate, but it's
their chart it comes up 5th House activity, not in yours. Insurance
is just a hedge against future loss, not about profit or
profiteering. Insurance is an expense. You don't get rich on
insurance.

Yes, I'd be inclined to say that it's 8th for the buyer but maybe 5th for
the insurers, for whom it is more like gambling. But then the 8th is more
about windfalls and large, exceptional sums of money, so maybe it does the
payouts while the 2nd does the premiums. What are your 2nd house and its
ruler doing, Dottie?

[Todd Carnes]

Post by Dottie
I remember reading on
here that it was a 5th house matter....because it was speculation.

Insurance is NOT speculation.

Todd