Mercury retrograde and traffic problems?

[unknown]

Some astrologers associate Mercury retrograde with traffic jams, car
breakdowns and so on, others don't hold with it. (Personally I've seen it
in a few charts of plane crashes, but not enough to feel sure either way).
It occurs to me that there are probably records kept of most of these
things. In theory, could you compare Mercury's movements with various kinds
of traffic statistics and settle it that way (at least for the particular
kind of incident you were checking)? And how would you go about accessing
the records and calculating how well they fit Mercury's movements?

[Kjell Pettersson]

Post by unknown
Some astrologers associate Mercury retrograde with traffic jams, car
breakdowns and so on, others don't hold with it.  (Personally I've seen it
in a few charts of plane crashes, but not enough to feel sure either way).

For aeroplanes I would start with looking at Uranus, rather than
Mercury, Rx or not.

Post by unknown
It occurs to me that there are probably records kept of most of these
things.

I haven't checked, but I am almost certain you would be able to find
lists (categories) in Wikipedia.

Post by unknown
 In theory, could you compare Mercury's movements with various kinds
of traffic statistics and settle it that way (at least for the particular
kind of incident you were checking)?  And how would you go about accessing
the records and calculating how well they fit Mercury's movements?

It is said that when speaking of how Mercury Rx affects individuals,
those with Mercury retrograde in the natal chart are less affected, or
not at all. I would guess that this sensibility, or not, to Mercury
would be just as much in effect for cars, crossways and roads as for
people, so it may be a tricky thing to choose incidents that meet the
same criteria sensibility-wise.

Given my last objection, I would not try to deal with several kinds of
statistics and events simultaneously, as you may end up mixing apples
and pears, but focus upon one single kind of event. If you do that,
individual horoscopes for cars, people and whatnot are likely to
balance one another, and your result will show what factors are of
importance for that particular kind of event.

If you have done this for several kinds of events and note that they
all have the same signature, then it would be reasonable to mix and
match to look for larger pictures within the signature pattern.

/Kjell

[Kjell Pettersson]

On Jul 29, 12:20 am, "A B" <@bleBaker.uk> wrote:

---

Post by unknown
In theory, could you compare Mercury's movements with various kinds
of traffic statistics and settle it that way (at least for the particular
kind of incident you were checking)?  And how would you go about accessing
the records and calculating how well they fit Mercury's movements?

If what you want to examine, primarily, is Mercury Rx rather than
traffic jams, then I think I can suggest an analogical example that
could be easier to find data for.

Stutterers.

Stuttering must certainly be related to Mercury retrograde, if
anything is. Analogically it is a "traffic jam" (communication coming
to a halt), and there must just as certainly be possible to find birth
charts for stutterers.

I like royals, because they more often than not have their precise
birthtimes recorded. Assuming the movie "The King's Speech" is at
least somewhat based on fact, you would have George VI to start with.

Wikipedia also has a page of stutterers:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_stutterers

/Kjell

[G Daeb]

Post by unknown
Some astrologers associate Mercury retrograde with traffic jams, car
breakdowns and so on, others don't hold with it.  (Personally I've seen it
in a few charts of plane crashes, but not enough to feel sure either way).
It occurs to me that there are probably records kept of most of these
things.  In theory, could you compare Mercury's movements with various kinds
of traffic statistics and settle it that way (at least for the particular
kind of incident you were checking)?  And how would you go about accessing
the records and calculating how well they fit Mercury's movements?

As a first post, I will start by pointing out the obvious:
that Mercury being "in retrograde" is an illusion.

I did draw up a chart for myself years ago, following a
set of rules in a book, and Mercury is a planet on its
own in my birth chart in that it falls under a sign in
which nothing else falls for me.

What the sign is, well, that's for me to know. It is true,
though, that for various reasons I happened on the term
"retrograde" by an entirely different route to astrology,
but that I happened on it during a time period in which
Mercury was going retrograde quite a bit in the late
1990s--so it's a term which has stuck in my mind.

Indeed, I did log on in this session purely to post about
Mercury being in its retrograde aspect, following on
from something that happened today.

I'm the new owner of a motor vehicle.

And one of the locks on it is, if you like, a bit on
the fritz. Or was. Until today.

Being an optimist by nature, and also having a
muscle memory geared around the procedures that
apply to most motor vehicles, I did find that I was
playing with this lock quasi-autonomically.

And the end result is that I'm getting the sprung pins
inside the mechanism to settle back into place as,
today, it started working again.

I'm happy that it would have been simply a matter of
time, but the timing I did find slightly ironic. And am
saying this here simply because Mercury is currently
retrograde and what I'm doing is putting right something
that went wrong in the past.

I know there are those who will hold that this anecdote
somehow "proves" astrology; but I rather suspect there
are more people who will be glad of something solid to
say to friends and family (this is not the "pro" group)
for whom they are reading that is uplifting and positive
and can be used to encourage people to get away from
superstitious fear - common to The Human Experience
to the extent that a great many people still seek the
blessing of a hierophant to ensure fruitful reproductive
augury - that all it can ever mean is that everything is
going to go wrong and instead suggest meaningful ways
in an appropriate context that people can go about doing
something worthwhile.

After all, it's not good to dwell on the past - and you
don't exactly need to be a brain surgeon to spot that
that is so common as to be pseudo axiomatic to agony
auntery, at the very least - but nor is it wise to just forget
all about it entirely.

Certainly, from various aspects of thought which look at
astrology within sociological or socially-psychological
frameworks, Mercury being retrograde makes a good
control variable as, regardless which system you use,
it still appears to be retrograde whichever sign it's said
to be in.

The UK now has a national insurers' database on line,
and also has an Office of National Statistics which is
bound to honour requests made under current UK
Freedom of Information (FoI) regulations.

Whether or not you could get equivalent data from,
say, India where the Vedic system is practised, and
then use those sets to differentiate any statistically
significant trends is not something it had ever occurred
to me to check--but is how I'd go about starting to if
I were inclined and resourced to facilitate one.

Post by unknown
--
A. B.><>
My e-mail address is zen177395 at  zendotcodotuk, though I don't check that
account very often.

I normally drop in and out of UMTM, where there has
been discussion on whather or not banks have already
phased checks out, courtesy of motoring journalist
Jeremy Clarkson, a presenter of the BBC motoring
magazine show Top Gear.

G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2011 SIPSTON
--

[unknown]

Post by G Daeb

Post by unknown
Some astrologers associate Mercury retrograde with traffic jams, car
breakdowns and so on, others don't hold with it. (Personally I've seen it
in a few charts of plane crashes, but not enough to feel sure either way).
It occurs to me that there are probably records kept of most of these
things. In theory, could you compare Mercury's movements with various
kinds
of traffic statistics and settle it that way (at least for the particular
kind of incident you were checking)? And how would you go about accessing
the records and calculating how well they fit Mercury's movements?

that Mercury being "in retrograde" is an illusion.
I did draw up a chart for myself years ago, following a
set of rules in a book, and Mercury is a planet on its
own in my birth chart in that it falls under a sign in
which nothing else falls for me.
What the sign is, well, that's for me to know. It is true,
though, that for various reasons I happened on the term
"retrograde" by an entirely different route to astrology,
but that I happened on it during a time period in which
Mercury was going retrograde quite a bit in the late
1990s--so it's a term which has stuck in my mind.
Indeed, I did log on in this session purely to post about
Mercury being in its retrograde aspect, following on
from something that happened today.
I'm the new owner of a motor vehicle.
And one of the locks on it is, if you like, a bit on
the fritz. Or was. Until today.
Being an optimist by nature, and also having a
muscle memory geared around the procedures that
apply to most motor vehicles, I did find that I was
playing with this lock quasi-autonomically.
And the end result is that I'm getting the sprung pins
inside the mechanism to settle back into place as,
today, it started working again.
I'm happy that it would have been simply a matter of
time, but the timing I did find slightly ironic. And am
saying this here simply because Mercury is currently
retrograde and what I'm doing is putting right something
that went wrong in the past.
I know there are those who will hold that this anecdote
somehow "proves" astrology; but I rather suspect there
are more people who will be glad of something solid to
say to friends and family (this is not the "pro" group)
for whom they are reading that is uplifting and positive
and can be used to encourage people to get away from
superstitious fear - common to The Human Experience
to the extent that a great many people still seek the
blessing of a hierophant to ensure fruitful reproductive
augury - that all it can ever mean is that everything is
going to go wrong and instead suggest meaningful ways
in an appropriate context that people can go about doing
something worthwhile.
After all, it's not good to dwell on the past - and you
don't exactly need to be a brain surgeon to spot that
that is so common as to be pseudo axiomatic to agony
auntery, at the very least - but nor is it wise to just forget
all about it entirely.
Certainly, from various aspects of thought which look at
astrology within sociological or socially-psychological
frameworks, Mercury being retrograde makes a good
control variable as, regardless which system you use,
it still appears to be retrograde whichever sign it's said
to be in.
The UK now has a national insurers' database on line,
and also has an Office of National Statistics which is
bound to honour requests made under current UK
Freedom of Information (FoI) regulations.
Whether or not you could get equivalent data from,
say, India where the Vedic system is practised, and
then use those sets to differentiate any statistically
significant trends is not something it had ever occurred
to me to check--but is how I'd go about starting to if
I were inclined and resourced to facilitate one.

All fascinating stuff, thank you! I'll look into both of those suggestions.

[Modteaminfo (www.altastrologymoderated.info)]

Welcome to the group (says the moderator), and thank you for an
interesting post. I shall, however, challenge one point you made.

Post by G Daeb
that Mercury being "in retrograde" is an illusion.

I would say that if one wants to be perfectly logical and astro-
logical, that is not so. Astrology in general is geocentric, at least
the kinds of astrology that contain retrogrades, and from a geocentric
point of view, retrogradation actually does occur. It does not occur
if you apply a heliocentric view of the solar system, but the
heliocentric view is not more TRUE, it is just the perspective that
holds the easiest math.

But this does not invalidate the other perspectives. So what is
illusion from a heliocentric point of view is NOT illusion from a
geocentric point of view. Post-Einstein we have learned that every
single point in the universe is its center, so we are not even allowed
to invalidate those impractical perspectives where the math becomes
messy (geocentrism, for instance).

This should, if taken literally and followed to its natural
conclusions, have great effects on our worldview. Local truth and
global truth may differ in appearances, and one of the appearances is
not more true than the other. It is just more convenient and seems to
be more lawful, not to mention being easier to calculate with. But
each perspective is equally valid.

So, back to Mercury Rx -- it is an illusion only from the perspective
given us by Newtonian physics, which ignores that we are earthly
beings and that this is special, but it is an actual event from an
astrological point of view, and as such likely one with consequences
on OUR -- geocentric -- plane of existence.

I admit that this is nitpicking, but I do find the point to be of some
philosophical importance, and helps to clarify that the Newtonian
paradigm is not to be seen as all-important and *truer* than other
ways of seeing. Like every perspective, it shows some things, and
hides others.

/Kjell

[Kjell Pettersson]

I am sorry, this post was made from the wrong account. The post is
not official in any way and reflects only the views of me personally,
not of this newsgroup as such.

So as not to confuse things further, I will let it stand. It shall be
as an eternal monument to the oh-how-true saying that moderators are
(indeed) not perfect, and as a humble reminder to myself to forever,
and ever, remember that -- and to check what account I am posting
from!

Your moderator, and newsgroup colleague too,

/Kjell



On Aug 28, 1:22ï¿œpm, "Modteaminfo (www.altastrologymoderated.info)"

Post by Modteaminfo (www.altastrologymoderated.info)
Welcome to the group (says the moderator), and thank you for an
interesting post. I shall, however, challenge one point you made.

Post by G Daeb
that Mercury being "in retrograde" is an illusion.

I would say that if one wants to be perfectly logical and astro-
logical, that is not so. Astrology in general is geocentric, at least
the kinds of astrology that contain retrogrades, and from a geocentric
point of view, retrogradation actually does occur. It does not occur
if you apply a heliocentric view of the solar system, but the
heliocentric view is not more TRUE, it is just the perspective that
holds the easiest math.
But this does not invalidate the other perspectives. So what is
illusion from a heliocentric point of view is NOT illusion from a
geocentric point of view. Post-Einstein we have learned that every
single point in the universe is its center, so we are not even allowed
to invalidate those impractical perspectives where the math becomes
messy (geocentrism, for instance).
This should, if taken literally and followed to its natural
conclusions, have great effects on our worldview. Local truth and
global truth may differ in appearances, and one of the appearances is
not more true than the other. It is just more convenient and seems to
be more lawful, not to mention being easier to calculate with. But
each perspective is equally valid.
So, back to Mercury Rx -- it is an illusion only from the perspective
given us by Newtonian physics, which ignores that we are earthly
beings and that this is special, but it is an actual event from an
astrological point of view, and as such likely one with consequences
on OUR -- geocentric -- plane of existence.
I admit that this is nitpicking, but I do find the point to be of some
philosophical importance, and helps to clarify that the Newtonian
paradigm is not to be seen as all-important and *truer* than other
ways of seeing. Like every perspective, it shows some things, and
hides others.
/Kjell

[dklugmann]

I have definitely heard that too about accidents. I think we had a big train crash in London on a Mercury retrograde. Personally i don't know if you will ever be able to prove these things in statistics but I believe observation of those days of the retrograde is the key. You get a general feeling of what is happening by watching the important days of the retrograde, specifically the stationary days. During a Mercury retrograde I noticed i got calls from people i hadn't heard from in a while as if people's thinking had turned backward.

http://www.myastrologycharts.com
http://www.myastrologycharts.com/mercury/mercury.php