AstroCartography and Lilith

[Sagastume]

Hi group!
I've been practicing Astrology for more or less 10 years now. I
learned about Astro-Cartography but never delved into it much. Until
a friend of mine came for a reading a couple of days ago. She has a
beautiful home, a wonderful husband healthy children and is very
unhappy. So we started to delve into the chart to see what we could
find. The explanation came up in her relocation chart so clearly that
it shocked me! When she left I started to fiddle around in my
relocation chart. And lo and behold! A few things that has baffled
me during the last years was there in black and white.

Natal Chart
7.30 P.M. 12.00 NORTH 83.45 WEST

SVP = 05 PIS 54m 49s True Ayanamsa = 23d 12m
08s

HOUSE CUSPS - Placidus
10TH house = 05 ARI 05 11TH house = 08 TAU 03 12TH house = 09 GEM 36
1ST house = 09 CAN 04 2ND house = 05 LEO 06 3RD house = 03 VIR 28
4TH house = 05 LIB 05 5TH house = 08 SCO 03 6TH house = 09 SAG 36
7TH house = 09 CPR 04 8TH house = 05 AQU 06 9TH house = 03 PIS 28

Vertex = 29 LIB 01 Equatorial Ascendant = 04 CAN 17
Co-Ascendant = 02 VIR 53 Polar Ascendant = 29 SAG 25


04 SAG 45m 32s SUN ( 5TH HOUSE) 21 S 06 25 CPR 14
00 N 00
08 ARI 21m 06s MOON (10TH HOUSE) 07 N 01 21 VIR 39
04 N 02
12 SAG 34m 24s MERCURY R ( 6TH HOUSE) 22 S 20 17 CPR 26
00 S 01
13 CPR 34m 52s VENUS ( 7TH HOUSE) 24 S 53 16 SAG 25
02 S 08
03 AQU 59m 18s MARS ( 7TH HOUSE) 20 S 42 26 SCO 01
01 S 29
13 TAU 28m 28s JUPITER R (11TH HOUSE) 14 N 40 16 LEO 32
01 S 16
23 LIB 20m 23s SATURN ( 4TH HOUSE) 06 S 55 06 PIS 40
02 N 19
18 CAN 02m 08s URANUS R ( 1ST HOUSE) 22 N 39 11 GEM 58
00 N 26
22 LIB 57m 01s NEPTUNE ( 4TH HOUSE) 07 S 25 07 PIS 03
01 N 38
23 LEO 15m 46s PLUTO S ( 2ND HOUSE) 22 N 34 06 TAU 44
09 N 21
15 AQU 55m 31s N. NODE ( 8TH HOUSE) 16 S 04 14 SCO 04
12 SCO 39m 42s P. OF F. ( 5TH HOUSE) 15 S 39 17 AQU 20
09 CAN 04m 08s ASC ( 1ST HOUSE) 23 N 08 20 GEM 56
05 ARI 04m 34s MC (10TH HOUSE) 02 N 01 24 VIR 55
10 CPR 19m 14s CHIRON ( 7TH HOUSE) 16 S 48 19 SAG 41
Decl. Solstice Pt
Lat.


Relocation Chart 13 years ago
11.22 A.M. 33.55 SOUTH 150.00 EAST

SVP = 05 PIS 54m 49s True Ayanamsa = 23d 12m
08s

HOUSE CUSPS - Placidus
10TH house = 28 SCO 38 11TH house = 01 CPR 53 12TH house = 03 AQU 15
1ST house = 01 PIS 48 2ND house = 26 PIS 43 3RD house = 26 ARI 01
4TH house = 28 TAU 38 5TH house = 01 CAN 53 6TH house = 03 LEO 15
7TH house = 01 VIR 48 8TH house = 26 VIR 43 9TH house = 26 LIB 01

Vertex = 17 CAN 19 Equatorial Ascendant = 24 AQU 06
Co-Ascendant = 07 PIS 48 Polar Ascendant = 11 LEO 55


PLANET NATAL LONG NATAL D. PROG LONG PROG D. SOLAR ARC
TRANSITS
------ ---------- -------- --------- ------- ---------
--------
SUN 04 SAG 45 21 S 06 26 CPR 46 20 S 49 26 CPR 46 15
CPR 03
MOON 08 ARI 16 06 N 59 18 AQU 43 14 S 38 00 GEM 17 27
GEM 21
MERCURY 12 SAG 35 R 22 S 20 16 CPR 09 23 S 49 04 AQU 35 26
SAG 18 S
VENUS 13 CPR 34 24 S 53 13 PIS 05 07 S 16 05 PIS 35 19
AQU 26
MARS 03 AQU 59 20 S 42 13 PIS 18 07 S 18 25 PIS 59 12
ARI 15
JUPITER 13 TAU 29 R 14 N 40 11 TAU 13 14 N 13 05 CAN 29 18
VIR 54 R
SATURN 23 LIB 20 06 S 55 26 LIB 57 08 S 03 15 SAG 21 09
CAN 19 R
URANUS 18 CAN 02 R 22 N 39 16 CAN 03 R 22 N 55 10 VIR 03 00
PIS 18
NEPTUNE 22 LIB 57 07 S 24 23 LIB 52 07 S 42 14 SAG 57 11
AQU 53
PLUTO 23 LEO 16 S 22 N 34 22 LEO 38 R 23 N 01 15 LIB 16 20
SAG 40
N. NODE 15 AQU 56 16 S 04 13 AQU 13 16 S 51 07 ARI 56 17
TAU 26
PART F. 05 CAN 19 23 N 20 10 TAU 45 15 N 03 27 LEO 19 16
VIR 56
ASC 01 PIS 48 10 S 50 18 ARI 48 07 N 22 23 ARI 48 04
ARI 38
MC 28 SCO 38 19 S 52 20 CPR 39 21 S 52 20 CPR 39 05
CPR 02
CHIRON 10 CPR 19 16 S 48 15 CPR 11 16 S 24 02 PIS 20 18
CPR 57

Progressed, solar arc, and transit positions exact to 06 Jan 2004





In my country of birth I always worked outside the home (Moon in
Aries/10) and never had a problem securing very good positions. In my
relocation chart, Pluto/Lilith conjuction falls in my 6th H. For the
last years all the jobs I had was in ventures that was going down
(Pluto). The best job I had for only a few months was with a company
that distributed literature and held workshops throughout the country
on suicide prevention (!!!!) (Pluto again), one morning when I arrived
to work the police was there and the couple who owned the company was
fighting over the furniture in the business. They were divorcing and
breaking up the company. I haven't been able to secure a stable job.
I have worked a couple of weeks in a few places but couldn't stand the
horrible harpies (Lilith) I met in absolutely every job I have had in
this city. In the end, I just gave up, and decided to find other
interests in life. Being a Sag I have multiple interests so I have
adapted to a very secluded life. These horrible conniving bitches
that I met at work, really baffled me. I started to think that the
women of this country where very angry at leaving their homes to go to
work. At one time I thought that I had a victim mentality and somehow
these women were picking it up. Tried to work on that but to no
avail. In the relocation chart ascendant is at 2 Pisces which is
Saturn/Ascendant midpoint, Munkasey has this to say about this
midpoint:

"You find peace in solitude and are happy to live in your inner mental
space, you do not rely on others for personal stimulation, and prefer
to entertain yourself, you need only short amount of time with
others".

This is exactly what is happening to me. I am not too happy about it.
I am a Sag with Aries Moon and Jupiter in the 11th. In this
relocation chart my Sun is in the 10th which can mean lots of
opportunities career wise. But because Natal Sun is on the Cusp of
6th my Sun is all about healing. So yes the last 13 years have been a
period of self exploration and very deep healing, and I am grateful
for this. But I now feel that it is time to move on. The only
problem with this new location is that the Lilith/Pluto conjunction
falls in my 7th house, which means it is even more powerful.

Please guys! Can you help me out here with some insights??



Planned new relocation
27 Nov 1952 TZ = -10.0 11.00 A.M. 12.28 SOUTH 130.50 EAST

Solar arc is 52 degrees, 00 minutes (06 Jan 2004)

PLANET NATAL LONG NATAL D. PROG LONG PROG D. SOLAR ARC
TRANSITS
------ ---------- -------- --------- ------- ---------
--------
SUN 04 SAG 44 21 S 05 26 CPR 45 20 S 49 26 CPR 45 15
CPR 02
MOON 08 ARI 04 06 N 54 18 AQU 29 14 S 43 00 GEM 04 27
GEM 10
MERCURY 12 SAG 36 R 22 S 21 16 CPR 07 23 S 49 04 AQU 36 26
SAG 18 R
VENUS 13 CPR 33 24 S 53 13 PIS 04 07 S 17 05 PIS 34 19
AQU 25
MARS 03 AQU 58 20 S 42 13 PIS 17 07 S 18 25 PIS 59 12
ARI 14
JUPITER 13 TAU 29 R 14 N 40 11 TAU 13 14 N 13 05 CAN 29 18
VIR 54 R
SATURN 23 LIB 20 06 S 55 26 LIB 57 08 S 03 15 SAG 21 09
CAN 19 R
URANUS 18 CAN 02 R 22 N 39 16 CAN 03 R 22 N 55 10 VIR 03 00
PIS 18
NEPTUNE 22 LIB 57 07 S 24 23 LIB 52 07 S 42 14 SAG 57 11
AQU 53
PLUTO 23 LEO 16 S 22 N 34 22 LEO 38 R 23 N 01 15 LIB 16 20
SAG 40
N. NODE 15 AQU 56 16 S 04 13 AQU 13 16 S 51 07 ARI 56 17
TAU 26
PART F. 07 GEM 10 21 N 31 17 ARI 23 06 N 49 29 CAN 10 23
LEO 08
ASC 03 AQU 51 19 S 18 25 PIS 38 01 S 44 25 PIS 51 10
PIS 59
MC 03 SCO 58 12 S 51 25 SAG 59 23 S 23 25 SAG 59 12
SAG 17
CHIRON 10 CPR 19 16 S 48 15 CPR 11 16 S 24 02 PIS 19 18
CPR 57

Progressed, solar arc, and transit positions exact to 06 Jan 2004

HOUSE CUSPS - Placidus
10TH house = 03 SCO 58 11TH house = 05 SAG 17 12TH house = 04 CPR 56
1ST house = 03 AQU 51 2ND house = 01 PIS 20 3RD house = 01 ARI 49
4TH house = 03 TAU 58 5TH house = 05 GEM 17 6TH house = 04 CAN 56
7TH house = 03 LEO 51 8TH house = 01 VIR 20 9TH house = 01 LIB 49

Vertex = 02 TAU 51 Equatorial Ascendant = 29 CPR 33
Co-Ascendant = 09 PIS 33 Polar Ascendant = 24 CAN 53

[Christine]

Post by Sagastume
Hi group!

[..]

Post by Sagastume
23 LEO 15m 46s PLUTO S ( 2ND HOUSE) 22 N 34 06 TAU 44
09 N 21

Hi Sagastume,
You mentioned in your post that Lilith is conjunct Pluto. Upon checking,
Lilith is on 27* Leo.

Post by Sagastume
From what I could judge from a quick count of your natal chart placings,

this conjunction makes an exact 135* aspect from Pluto to the Aries Moon,
and sextile to the Saturn-Neptune in Libra in the 4th house.

Post by Sagastume
From your post, I couldn't make out if you were male or female.

One thing that I have noticed with Lilith's position is that, through the
senses, it ACTIVELY ATTRACTS or REPELS the function of the planet with which
it is linked by aspect. The Moon is PASSIVELY attracted TO, or BY, and
inwardly RESPONDS TO and REFLECTS the function of a planet to which it is
linked. There is a great difference if you think about it.

Lilith in Leo appears to show a deep inner feeling of strong need for
identity as a person in one's own right, and provides the strongest source
of personal active creative expression. OR, it can produce an inner feeling
of lack of those Leonian qualities, such as talents of an organistional and
directorship nature. Domination and leadership always plays a leading and
significant role; it will not be accepted, tolerated, or allowed by others
in the Lilith in Leo person, as well as vice-versa because Lilith in Leo
recognises this as a natural (if not yet integral) part of his/her own
being. If, for some reason, the Lilith in Leo person allows or 'inwardly
feels' that his/her true identity of creative expression to be/is shunned,
neglected and/or or denied in order to be accepted by others, the identity
they take on is ultimately a false one. They don't really exist as the
person they truly are in their own right. Eventually Lilith in Leo will need
to surface rather than constantly stay in hiding.

Put this in a natal 2nd house, and there is a strong inner need for the
Lilith in Leo to 'feel' the creative expression within it is valued rather
than worthless. OR, it could feel that 'I don't have that in me', ' I could
never act like a lion or lioness(!)'. Add a natal 5th house Sun in
Sagittarius's creative motivation to rise above and be the best, and a 10th
house Moon in Aries need to feel its 'the one and only boss', and there
could be problems ahead every time Lilith in Leo deeply feels it is
dominated or told what to do....especially by those (other) women who appear
so strong and capable.

With such strong links in the fire signs and in the 2nd/5th and10th houses,
what has stopped you from ever going into business for yourself? The 6th
house (as per your relocation chart) refers to 'business', doesn't it ?
Maybe your interaction with the women you have worked for has acted as a
stimulance to test the quality of your own business capabilities/acumen?

Post by Sagastume
I haven't been able to secure a stable job.
I have worked a couple of weeks in a few places but couldn't stand the
horrible harpies (Lilith) I met in absolutely every job I have had in
this city.
These horrible conniving bitches
that I met at work, really baffled me. I started to think that the
women of this country where very angry at leaving their homes to go to
work. At one time I thought that I had a victim mentality and somehow
these women were picking it up.

Rather, perhaps, you were picking up on them?
You may possess 'an attitude' that you prefer not to admit to. Lilith is
very good at that :-)
You have a natal Saturn-Neptune in 4th, with Moon in the opposing
sign/house. Your Sun is in natal 5th, that associates with parenthood. There
could be a sort of 'guilt' ( SA) lingering at working rather than acting out
the role of caring, always available parent?


But because Natal Sun is on the Cusp of

Post by Sagastume
6th my Sun is all about healing. So yes the last 13 years have been a
period of self exploration and very deep healing, and I am grateful
for this. But I now feel that it is time to move on.

The 6th is also the house of working on the self. Did you work on it.....or
just work? :-)

The only

Post by Sagastume
problem with this new location is that the Lilith/Pluto conjunction
falls in my 7th house, which means it is even more powerful.
Please guys! Can you help me out here with some insights??

Simply? You may find that you attract others who will want to dominate,
possess, and take control of you.....unless you admit and recognise that as
a part of yourself?
Take back any control of yourself that you may have felt to have lacked and
show how strong you can be?
Lilith conjunct Pluto never needed 'any body' to survive :-)

Regards,
Christine.

[t***@hotmail.com]

Post by Christine

Post by Sagastume
Hi group!

[..]

Post by Sagastume
23 LEO 15m 46s PLUTO S ( 2ND HOUSE) 22 N 34 06 TAU 44
09 N 21

Hi Sagastume,
You mentioned in your post that Lilith is conjunct Pluto. Upon checking,
Lilith is on 27* Leo.

Post by Sagastume
From what I could judge from a quick count of your natal chart placings,

this conjunction makes an exact 135* aspect from Pluto to the Aries Moon,
and sextile to the Saturn-Neptune in Libra in the 4th house.

Post by Sagastume
From your post, I couldn't make out if you were male or female.

Female.

Post by Christine
One thing that I have noticed with Lilith's position is that, through the
senses, it ACTIVELY ATTRACTS or REPELS the function of the planet with which
it is linked by aspect.

That 10th Moon in Aries is all about Mother, which i believe to be
part of my self that I detest. She was all about shining, fame and
glory and negleted her children. So if that is in me she made sure it
wouldn't come out (thank God). But then I married a man that became
nationally famous while married to him. And had to continue being the
person accompanied by the 'famous one'. Believe me I know the value
of anonimity. I cherish it. So, do you believe that Lillith is
making reject that 10th Moon/Aries. Could be a pass life thing. I
have no positive experience connected to fame. Mom a nationally
famous painter, Dad, singer later renown radio commentator and in my
view on the wrong side of politics. Total dissaster. In my case it
was like Germaine Greer being the daughter of Ronald Reagan.


The Moon is PASSIVELY attracted TO, or BY, and

Post by Christine
inwardly RESPONDS TO and REFLECTS the function of a planet to which it is
linked. There is a great difference if you think about it.
Lilith in Leo appears to show a deep inner feeling of strong need for
identity as a person in one's own right, and provides the strongest source
of personal active creative expression. OR, it can produce an inner feeling
of lack of those Leonian qualities, such as talents of an organistional and
directorship nature. Domination and leadership always plays a leading and
significant role; it will not be accepted, tolerated, or allowed by others
in the Lilith in Leo person, as well as vice-versa because Lilith in Leo
recognises this as a natural (if not yet integral) part of his/her own
being. If, for some reason, the Lilith in Leo person allows or 'inwardly
feels' that his/her true identity of creative expression to be/is shunned,
neglected and/or or denied in order to be accepted by others, the identity
they take on is ultimately a false one. They don't really exist as the
person they truly are in their own right.

This part is so true. It has taken me a while to really accept my
weird 1st house Uranus self. Now at 51 I am very independent.

Eventually Lilith in Leo will need

Post by Christine
to surface rather than constantly stay in hiding.

Hiding took many faces in my case. Alcohol addiction, and a few
other types of addiction which I am glad are all behind me. Still
struggling with nicotine.

Post by Christine
Put this in a natal 2nd house, and there is a strong inner need for the
Lilith in Leo to 'feel' the creative expression within it is valued rather
than worthless. OR, it could feel that 'I don't have that in me', ' I could
never act like a lion or lioness(!)'. Add a natal 5th house Sun in
Sagittarius's creative motivation to rise above and be the best, and a 10th
house Moon in Aries need to feel its 'the one and only boss', and there
could be problems ahead every time Lilith in Leo deeply feels it is
dominated or told what to do....especially by those (other) women who appear
so strong and capable.
With such strong links in the fire signs and in the 2nd/5th and10th houses,
what has stopped you from ever going into business for yourself?

That is where I believe that the relocation chart comes in. I have a
Pisces ascendant and Mars in 12 here. From the first year I cold feel
the watering down of my fire, so to speak.


The 6th

Post by Christine
house (as per your relocation chart) refers to 'business', doesn't it ?
Maybe your interaction with the women you have worked for has acted as a
stimulance to test the quality of your own business capabilities/acumen?

Post by Sagastume
I haven't been able to secure a stable job.
I have worked a couple of weeks in a few places but couldn't stand the
horrible harpies (Lilith) I met in absolutely every job I have had in
this city.
These horrible conniving bitches
that I met at work, really baffled me. I started to think that the
women of this country where very angry at leaving their homes to go to
work. At one time I thought that I had a victim mentality and somehow
these women were picking it up.

Rather, perhaps, you were picking up on them?
You may possess 'an attitude' that you prefer not to admit to. Lilith is
very good at that :-)

Oh YES! I seem to have xray vision. People hate it even if I don't
open my mouth. Very hard to live with.

Post by Christine
You have a natal Saturn-Neptune in 4th, with Moon in the opposing
sign/house. Your Sun is in natal 5th, that associates with parenthood. There
could be a sort of 'guilt' ( SA) lingering at working rather than acting out
the role of caring, always available parent?

Do my best not be like Mom and DAd.

Post by Christine
But because Natal Sun is on the Cusp of

Post by Sagastume
6th my Sun is all about healing. So yes the last 13 years have been a
period of self exploration and very deep healing, and I am grateful
for this. But I now feel that it is time to move on.

The 6th is also the house of working on the self. Did you work on it.....or
just work? :-)

I worked on myself. It seems that the universe wanted me to do only
that. The ride has been one very enlightening one.

Post by Christine
The only

Post by Sagastume
problem with this new location is that the Lilith/Pluto conjunction
falls in my 7th house, which means it is even more powerful.
Please guys! Can you help me out here with some insights??

Simply? You may find that you attract others who will want to dominate,
possess, and take control of you.....unless you admit and recognise that as
a part of yourself?
Take back any control of yourself that you may have felt to have lacked and
show how strong you can be?

Lilith conjunct Pluto never needed 'any body' to survive :-)

Today my daughter was telling me about this. She said that she fears
my power to detach from anything that is stopping me. No one can use
emotional manipulation on me. I see right thru them. Pluto/Lilith?

Post by Christine
Regards,
Christine.

Thanks Christine, very enlightening answer. I still have to decide on
relocation now that Lilith progressed to conj. my descendant exactly.
I want to run away from that angularity. I the proposed new location
She will fall on the cusp of the 8th.

Sagastume

[Christine]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Thanks Christine, very enlightening answer. I still have to decide on
relocation now that Lilith progressed to conj. my descendant exactly.
I want to run away from that angularity. I the proposed new location
She will fall on the cusp of the 8th.
Sagastume

I offer my own thanks for your very candid replies, which help my
understanding of 'the point' of and behind Lilith's placing.
There's much in your replies that I would have liked to venture deeper into
but which isn't significant to the topic of this thread.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Christine.