How Do You Interpret Pluto?

Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, as the concept, the
symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational influence and the
personal influence. I will start with the concept, and here I should
speak of good and evil, the darkness and the light, the eternal bliss
and the eternal punishment. The seekers of truth always look for Pluto's
influence with its' relentless search for the truth, non compromising,
accepting nothing less than the truth.

a mirror

--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

2010-11-29 08:21:26 UTC

Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, as the concept, the
symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational influence and the
personal influence. I will start with the concept, and here I should
speak of good and evil, the darkness and the light, the eternal bliss
and the eternal punishment. The seekers of truth always look for Pluto's
influence with its' relentless search for the truth, non compromising,
accepting nothing less than the truth.

a mirror
--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

Venus is the known planet for being a mirror, would care to explain
the difference.

M.H.

Kjell Pettersson

2010-11-29 09:30:31 UTC

Venus is the known planet for being a mirror, [...]

Do you have a source for that? By whom is Venus known to be the mirror
planet?

/K

donh

2010-12-04 04:39:18 UTC

Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, Â as the concept,
the symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational influence and
the personal influence. I will start with the concept, and here I
should speak of good and evil, the darkness and the light, the
eternal bliss and the eternal punishment. The seekers of truth always
look for Pluto's influence with its' relentless search for the truth,
non compromising, accepting nothing less than the truth.

a mirror
--
Â Â donh
donh at audiosys dot com

Venus is the known planet for being a mirror, would care to explain the
difference.
M.H.

Pluto is desire. Where it sits, people see what they want to see.
Mirror.

I have no clue what you are talking about re: Venus.

--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

2010-12-04 09:22:34 UTC

Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, as the concept,
the symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational influence and
the personal influence. I will start with the concept, and here I
should speak of good and evil, the darkness and the light, the
eternal bliss and the eternal punishment. The seekers of truth always
look for Pluto's influence with its' relentless search for the truth,
non compromising, accepting nothing less than the truth.

a mirror
--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

Venus is the known planet for being a mirror, would care to explain the
difference.
M.H.

Pluto is desire. Where it sits, people see what they want to see.
Mirror.
I have no clue what you are talking about re: Venus.
--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror. Venus the
natural ruler of the seventh house where it reflects our best
qualities to others.

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-04 09:46:11 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

2010-12-05 06:07:57 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

Since the first house represents, I am, the seventh house represents,
we are, the first house is the action, the seventh house is the
reaction, for a reaction to take place, you have to take the action
and mirror it on an interpersonal scale, Venus ruler of the seventh
house is about reciprocation, Pluto ruler of the eighth house is about
retaliation.

A B

2010-12-05 17:24:22 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

True. Also (as I think M.H. was saying above) mirrors were classically one
of Aphrodite/Venus's symbols. I'm not sure about Athena, though, either
with mirrors or Venus.

--
A. B.
My e-mail address is zen177395 at zendotcodotuk, though I don't check that
account very often.

2010-12-06 09:05:00 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

True. Also (as I think M.H. was saying above) mirrors were classically one
of Aphrodite/Venus's symbols. I'm not sure about Athena, though, either
with mirrors or Venus.
--
A. B.
My e-mail address is zen177395 at zendotcodotuk, though I don't check that
account very often.

One of the influences of Pluto as a mirror, is to be felt whenever
there is a situation of verbal retaliation, where you find the other
party answering you with your own words as if a recorded tape replayed
back at you, and you feel your words hit a mirror, but did not break
through to be understood, and at the same time, the answer does not
make much sense except as aggressive retaliation. I am trying to stay
on track because this post is about Pluto and not Venus.

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-06 09:36:13 UTC

True. Also (as I think M.H. was saying above) mirrors were classically one
of Aphrodite/Venus's symbols.

Regarding classical points of view, if the point of view is
*astrological* and classical, then the Moon is the mirror par
excellence. When one connects the mirror with Venus it is because
women need mirrors to make themselves (even more) beautiful, but no
special consideration is taken of its reflective function. If you
think of mirror as a reflector, not as an object belonging to a
beautiful female, you think of it in the lunar sense. If you think of
it as something in a beauticians parlour, it becomes Venusian. I dare
say, though, that the mirror is not, as such, Venusian.

The Moon as a Luminary gives off light, as does the Sun. But the
difference between the two is that the Sun gives off its own light
whereas the Moon reflects the light of the Sun. This is one of the
most basic things that can be said about the symbolism of the Moon,
especially from a classical perspective.

Then again, I understand well the idea Pluto as a mirror, as Pluto may
represent unconscious and repressed content that is projected onto
someone else. In this projection, the other one becomes a mirror of
the projected content of oneself and may, in actuality, have got
nothing at all to do with the image one sees in them.

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-06 09:12:29 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

But Athena, where does she fit into your interpretation of Pluto? Or
was it with Venus? I did not get that at all.

/K

2010-12-07 06:25:55 UTC

Post by MH
The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror.

I do not understand this. What are you attempting to say by this
sentence?

But Athena, where does she fit into your interpretation of Pluto? Or
was it with Venus? I did not get that at all.
/K

Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is a higher interpretation of Venus,
rising above petty personal interests, understanding the higher goals
of existance, defender of life and a fierce warrior, which gives me
the impression that she is the best representation of the Venus Pluto
energies. Can we talk about wisdom without taking Pluto into
consideration?

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-07 09:06:09 UTC

Post by MH
Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is a higher interpretation of Venus,

I have heard of Venus Urania, the Celestial Venus, which, according
to Plato, is the higher form of the goddess, as opposed to the Venus
Popularia.

http://www.wisdomportal.com/BirthOfVenus.html

Venus Urania is philosophically and astrologically interested, not
bothering too much about earthly pleasures. Or at all, being chaste.

The combination of Venus and Athena makes me think of the myth seeding
the Trojan War, where Paris is to choose the most beuatiful goddess
among Hera/Juno, Aphrodite/Venus and... Athena/Pallas, and ends up
choosing Venus. I am, however, not aware of the two being seen as
variations on the same theme or any myth conflating the two.

Where have you come across this idea, in astrology or in mythology?

Post by MH
Can we talk about wisdom without taking Pluto into
consideration?

I cannot see why Pluto would be specifically mentioned in connection
with wisdom. That would rather fall under melancholy, being related to
genius, and which falls under Saturn. Old age and wisdom are two of a
kind.

The natural symbolic connection between Pluto and wisdom evades me,
however. Pluto is associated with things like obsession, and in modern
astrology with the sign of Scorpio, which is a water sign and not
overly concerned with wisdom. If choosing a Sun sign for the
characteristic of wisdom, the choice would be Aquarius; combining
Saturn with air. Possibly one could also choose Sagittarius, as
understanding and philosophy are closely related ideas.

/K

CFA

2010-12-07 17:53:01 UTC

Post by Kjell Pettersson
The natural symbolic connection between Pluto and wisdom evades me,
however. Pluto is associated with things like obsession, and in modern
astrology with the sign of Scorpio, which is a water sign and not
overly concerned with wisdom.

Pluto also represents truth at the deepest levels. Though it isn't
typically associated with the word wisdom, I can see how it could
apply.

Post by Kjell Pettersson
If choosing a Sun sign for the
characteristic of wisdom, the choice would be Aquarius; combining
Saturn with air. Possibly one could also choose Sagittarius, as
understanding and philosophy are closely related ideas.

Though Sagittarius implies to me untested philosophies. For that I
would look to Capricorn. Aquarius seems to rebel at the notion of
structure, a hard-won by-product of experience, so that sign wouldn't
necessarily embody wisdom to me.

Post by Kjell Pettersson
/K

Ken

--
cfa at alt dot net

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-10 07:52:50 UTC

Post by CFA
Pluto also represents truth at the deepest levels. Though it isn't
typically associated with the word wisdom, I can see how it could
apply.

Every planet and every sign represents truth, in its own way. I really
should have added a strong disclaimer to associating it with any one
sign, or planet, in particular.

Post by CFA

As I should have said, I do not really think the idea of wisdom can be
confined to any single sign. That said, this is how I thought:

Choosing the element, emotional Water and materialist Earth would not
be what we commonly think of as wisdom. It would have to be mental Air
or inspired Fire. Air because we think of wisdom as something mental,
a capacity of the mind, Fire because wisdom is connected with the
spirit, which is fiery.

Choosing among th six Air and Fire signs, my own sign Gemini would
have to go immediately. Wisdom is not talkative, Geminis are. Libra
also has to go, they are too rational and wisdom is a more rounded-off
thing. Aquarius is ruled (or co-ruled) by Saturn, which gives
experience and endurance. It is also a fixed sign, and wisdom does not
change its mind every now and then. Wisdom also has a note of
meditation about it, making cardinal signs unfit for the honour.

Sag, as a second alternative, would have to do with the role of
Jupiter. I think of the law as embodied and codified wisdom, and Sag
also has that striving for the highest possible goals that goes very
well with the idea of wisdom.

All this said, I really think wisdom is a characteristic of a higher
order than Sun-sign characterictics, and must contain something of
every sign in order to fully be precisely wisdom.

/K

CFA

2010-12-10 21:33:53 UTC

Post by Kjell Pettersson
All this said, I really think wisdom is a characteristic of a higher
order than Sun-sign characterictics, and must contain something of
every sign in order to fully be precisely wisdom.

That would make (more) sense.

Post by Kjell Pettersson
/K

Ken

--
cfa at alt dot net

2010-12-11 07:25:18 UTC

When the abundance of thoughts make us reach a point blank, then we
have lost our faculty of discrimination, then again we need the wisdom
of Pluto to tear down the already worn out structures (in this
case,words to no end) to restart new, stronger and more applicable
practical basis.

M.H.

2010-12-08 10:16:47 UTC

Post by MH
Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is a higher interpretation of Venus,

I have heard of Venus Urania, the Celestial Venus , which, according
to Plato, is the higher form of the goddess, as opposed to the Venus
Popularia.
http://www.wisdomportal.com/BirthOfVenus.html
Venus Urania is philosophically and astrologically interested, not
bothering too much about earthly pleasures. Or at all, being chaste.
The combination of Venus and Athena makes me think of the myth seeding
the Trojan War, where Paris is to choose the most beuatiful goddess
among Hera/Juno, Aphrodite/Venus and... Athena/Pallas, and ends up
choosing Venus. I am, however, not aware of the two being seen as
variations on the same theme or any myth conflating the two.
Where have you come across this idea, in astrology or in mythology?

Post by MH
Can we talk about wisdom without taking Pluto into
consideration?

I cannot see why Pluto would be specifically mentioned in connection
with wisdom. That would rather fall under melancholy, being related to
genius, and which falls under Saturn. Old age and wisdom are two of a
kind.
The natural symbolic connection between Pluto and wisdom evades me,
however. Pluto is associated with things like obsession, and in modern
astrology with the sign of Scorpio, which is a water sign and not
overly concerned with wisdom. If choosing a Sun sign for the
characteristic of wisdom, the choice would be Aquarius; combining
Saturn with air. Possibly one could also choose Sagittarius, as
understanding and philosophy are closely related ideas.

Can there be wisdom without depth? can there be wisdom without
discernment? Can we see the wisdom of having the exaltation of Uranus
in Scorpio, and the exaltation of Pluto in Sagitarius?

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-10 07:52:51 UTC

Post by MH
Can there be wisdom without depth?

If one speaks of depth in connection with Scorpio, one probably means
(depth of) intensity, referring to intense emotions. Depth in general
would be Cancer and the open sea and its immense depths. I do not see
wisdom as such as an emotional thing, and particularly not as
intensely emotional. In my perception, wisdom must be able to be
detached to be wise, and however one turns the stone, Water signs are
not detached in nature.

Post by MH
can there be wisdom without
discernment?

Discernment really is Virgo/Libra rather than Scorpio. And, at least
in my perception, when one speaks of wisdom in general, again, one
does not speak about something intensely emotional, which is what we
have with Scorpio. Virgo does not deal with grand thoughts, while
wisdom does. Libra is way too rational, which is as unwise as being
too intensely emotional.

Post by MH
Can we see the wisdom of having the exaltation of Uranus
in Scorpio, and the exaltation of Pluto in Sagitarius?

Whether or not the modern planets even have signs where they are
exalted is, I would say, not settled.

That said, I still don't get how you get Athena to play the role of
Venus. Was the above supposed to somehow relate to that, or did you
just skip that question?

/K

2010-12-12 08:58:24 UTC

Post by MH
Can there be wisdom without depth?

Post by MH
can there be wisdom without
discernment?

Post by MH
Can we see the wisdom of having the exaltation of Uranus
in Scorpio, and the exaltation of Pluto in Sagitarius?

Whether or not the modern planets even have signs where they are
exalted is, I would say, not settled.
That said, I still don't get how you get Athena to play the role of
Venus. Was the above supposed to somehow relate to that, or did you
just skip that question?
/K

Since already existing and used information could be disregarded or
asserted pending on our train of thoughts, then my choosing Athena to
represent a certain image of Venus Pluto influence, could be right and
could be wrong, so why discuss something not settled?

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-15 15:10:24 UTC

Post by Kjell Pettersson
That said, I still don't get how you get Athena to play the role of
Venus. Was the above supposed to somehow relate to that, or did you
just skip that question?
/K

Aha, I see. I must have misunderstood your previous post. I thought
that when you wrote

Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is a higher interpretation of Venus

you meant that Athena is a higher interpretation of Venus.

Silly mistake of me. I can't understand what lead me to that
conclusion, but thanks for sorting it out.

/K

A B

2010-12-13 18:51:34 UTC

Post by MH
Can there be wisdom without depth?

I tend to give Pisces to open water, Cancer to lakes and pools, Scorpio to
deep water. It seems to work in the few event charts I've done. (I got the
idea from Hermes' "four elements" posting.)

Post by MH
can there be wisdom without
discernment?

I think Scorpio might relate to "discernment" in the sense of seeing deep
into something. Not in the sense of discrimination though, no. Personally,
I'd say that "wisdom" is just not a word that corresponds neatly to any one
sign or planet. If you have in mind the ability to see deep into something,
then yes, maybe Scorpio. Detachment and disinterest, Aquarius, among
others. Experience, Capricorn and Cancer. Philosophy and "higher"
understanding, Sagittarius... You could find some kind of excuse for almost
any sign or planet. All depends what application of "wisdom" you have in
mind.

Post by MH
Can we see the wisdom of having the exaltation of Uranus
in Scorpio, and the exaltation of Pluto in Sagitarius?

Whether or not the modern planets even have signs where they are
exalted is, I would say, not settled.

I don't see why not (assuming that Pluto even functions as a planet).
They're planets like any other. Only difference is that it took the human
race a while to catch on. Unless, of course, you take the view that the
planets' connotations are there partly because of what humans think about
them. Then when we discovered a planet really might make a difference to
its meaning in a chart. That said, I don't know that everyone agrees that
Pluto is exalted in Sag, so it's not very substantial evidence for anything.

--
A. B.
My e-mail address is zen177395 at zendotcodotuk, though I don't check that
account very often.

donh

2010-12-15 01:51:23 UTC

Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, as the
concept, the symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational
influence and the personal influence. I will start with the
concept, and here I should speak of good and evil, the darkness
and the light, the eternal bliss and the eternal punishment. The
seekers of truth always look for Pluto's influence with its'
relentless search for the truth, non compromising, accepting
nothing less than the truth.

a mirror
--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

Venus is the known planet for being a mirror, would care to explain
the difference.
M.H.

Pluto is desire. Where it sits, people see what they want to see.
Mirror.
I have no clue what you are talking about re: Venus.
--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

The Goddess Athena, and Venus symbolized to by the mirror. Venus the
natural ruler of the seventh house where it reflects our best qualities
to others.

This is far from what I meant when I mentioned "mirror". In fact "far"
understates it dramatically.

I typed that where pluto is in the chart "people see what they want to
see". "Mirror"

Where pluto is in the chart, others will see in you what they desire to
see in you. The down side of this is that it is entirely possible that
they will enlist you as a puppet in their play. The up side is that if
you can manage to be seen as you wish to be seen, you can have some great
fun.

Should you wish to be aware of pluto, you can elevate the effect. Hide,
and you get screwed (typically, quite literally).

Venus and her mirror are another matter altogether.

--
donh
donh at audiosys dot com

CFA

2010-11-28 14:14:33 UTC

Post by MH
Pluto the enigma, could be interpreted extensively, as the concept,
the symbolic meaning, the mythology, the generational influence and
the personal influence. I will start with the concept, and here I
should speak of good and evil, the darkness and the light, the eternal
bliss and the eternal punishment. The seekers of truth always look for
Pluto's influence with its' relentless search for the truth, non
compromising, accepting nothing less than the truth.

Well, I don't know what "Pluto is an octave of Tellus" means, since I
since I don't know what Peter means about Tellus. If he's referring to
the pagan Gaia, that's a mother earth thing (or perhaps more correctly
Mother Earth), which just doesn't align with my experience of Pluto or
Scorpio (passion and force, not so much the nurturing).

The idea of 'truth' is, as they say, fungible. It's constantly being
(re)defined in terms of current context. And I'm not sure the point is
actually about resolving the conflict (any conflict). The important
thing appears to be the hunt itself (or pursuit) of truth, not
necessarily its actual achievement [loop back].

Ken

--
cfa at alt dot net

Kjell Pettersson

2010-12-10 08:01:25 UTC

I agree with Pluto being relentless, whatever it searches for. It is,
however, not necessarily the truth as such it searches for. I would
even say that in general, that is too abstract a thing to qualify.
Pluto wants heavy involvement, to the point of obsession, and this
passionated involvement in itself is much what it seeks for. An
approach so rich with passion is too subjective to approach something
as neutral and objective as truth.

Whatever can trigger emotions of intensity and endurance will be
satisfying, which is why we often find it occupied with eternally
unsolvable questions like death, sex and psychology.

dklugmann

2012-07-07 01:38:55 UTC

For me Pluto is about intensity. In myth Pluto was a powerful figure who controlled the underworld and all the dark forces that lie there. In reality Pluto is the smallest of the planets but in astrology it is considered the most powerful and potentially destructive planet. This is similar in principle to the birth of the atomic age around the time of which Pluto was discovered. It shows the great energy that lies deep within small amounts of matter and the potential havoc or goodness it can be used for.

http://www.myastrologycharts.com
http://www.myastrologycharts.com/pluto/pluto.php

don hindenach

2012-07-07 19:15:40 UTC