January 30, 1649

[Kjell Pettersson]

Hi Claude!

I hope it is OK with you if I change to another newsgroup
(alt.astrology.moderated).

I remember you spoke of your interpretation of Nostradamus in
alt.astrology.moderated once. As I recall it, you gave the date that
time, but not so much more. I googled a little now that I had read
this post and found you mentioning that the 2017 destruction of Paris
would be between two eclipses in August. I am acquainted with these
eclipses as I have myself recently made a prediction regarding the
later one of them, the one that is upon Regulus.

I am interested in knowing if you have used any astrological data in
your interpretation of Nostradamus, and, if so, what data you used. If
you have the time and inclination, I would very much appreciate your
answer.

Regards,

/Kjell

*
Although the calendar changed in the meantime, we still mention
January 30, 1649, every January 30, as if it were an anniversary.
It is not. But it gives us the opportunity of revisiting what
might be a coincidence (although with Nostradamus, one ought to
hesitate before calling anything a coincidence). There is at
least one quatrain which appears to bear the number of the year
*
-------------------- C E N T V R I E___I X. ------------------
------------------ (édition prétendue de 1568) ---------------
*
--------------------------- X L I X. -------------------------
--------- Gand & Bruceles marcheront contre Enuers. ----------
--------- Senat de Londres mettront à mort leur roy ----------
--------- Le sel & vin luy seront à l'enuers, ----------------
--------- Pour eux auoir le regne en desarroy. ---------------
*
Clear enough, after January 30, 1649, but not clear enough to
have been understood before the fact. What else is new. To rescue
Nostradamus' gift of prophecy, one can decipher this four-line
*
--------- Cromuel tuera le Bon Charles d'Angleterre en -------
--------- emmenant le Roy dehors et torturant alors ----------
--------- Vne très Belle Teste si Royalle --------------------
--------- Coupée à Londres en Ianuyer XL Neuf. ---------------
*
--------- Cromwell shall kill the Good Charles of England by -
--------- leading the King outside and then torturing --------
--------- a very Handsome Head so Royal ----------------------
--------- cut off at London in Ianuary XL Nine. --------------
*
In the last line, he even gives the month and the year. But a
question remained: Why was Nostradamus interested at all in the
beheading of the King of England? After all, a French King was
also beheaded on the Place de la Révolution, so why mention that
other beheading?
*
The answer came much later, when it became apparent that
Nostradamus had hidden not only one text in prose in his poem,
but at least two, the other always having to do with the
circumstances of the unintended destruction ofParis, on Sunday,
August 13,2017, at 3:53.a m., the target of the ICBM being the
Place de la Concorde, where Louis XVI was beheaded.
*
To impress upon his readers thatParisis not being punished for
having beheaded her King, Nostradamus points to that other
beheading, which does not result in the nuking of London. What
happens toParisis a mistake, no one intending to punishParis.
*
*
--------- Ce Cher U S tue les Bons Garçons d'Angleterre ------
--------- le Treyze Aoust de mon Oracle tant monstré ---------
--------- au Roy l'esté très violent, l'Année ----------------
--------- Dix Sept, Année d'Horreur pour le Roy. -------------
*
--------- This Dear U S kills the Good Sons of England -------
--------- on the Thirteenth of August of my Oracle much shown
--------- to the King, that very violent Summer, Year --------
--------- Seventeen, a Horrible Year for the King. -----------
*
There lies the connection between the destruction ofParisand
the English King: His two sons are inPariswhen it happens. What
is not clear is whether they come toParisas a gesture of good
will towards France, intending to show that the deciphered
Prophecy is pure BS, or whether their presence is not motivated
at all by the Prophecy, being merely the result of their love forParis.
*
In any event, both sons of King George VII are inPariswhen the
city is destroyed. Their father shall be unable to bring their
bodies home, contrary to what he had been able to do when their
mother died there some twenty years previously.
*
Annus Horribilis indeed!
*
Claude Latrémouille
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
January 30, 2012
*
    === CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
    ===========================

[Claude Latremouille]

<References: <jg61uf$n1i$***@theodyn.ncf.ca>
<f64e1929-f65b-4d30-bc1f-***@15g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
Keywords: Astrology, Nostradamus
Lines: 109
*
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 10:34:34 CST, Kjell Pettersson
<***@kjellpettersson.com> wrote:
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
Hi Claude!
I hope it is OK with you if I change to another newsgroup
(alt.astrology.moderated).

*
No problem.
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I remember you spoke of your interpretation of Nostradamus in
alt.astrology.moderated once. As I recall it, you gave the date that
time, but not so much more. I googled a little now that I had read
this post and found you mentioning that the 2017 destruction of Paris
would be between two eclipses in August. I am acquainted with these
eclipses as I have myself recently made a prediction regarding the
later one of them, the one that is upon Regulus.
I am interested in knowing if you have used any astrological data in
your interpretation of Nostradamus, and, if so, what data you used. If
you have the time and inclination, I would very much appreciate your
answer.
Regards,
/Kjell

*
Nostradamus' attitude towards astrology is complicated, First, he
pretends to be using it in his prophecies. He is lying. Why?
Because astrology gives him an excuse for having had visions of
the future. If astrology is involved, he does not have to face
his critics who might accuse him of consorting with the devil
(some did), and he can avoid calling himself a prophet of God,
something which the Church might not look too favourably upon.
*
Second, in a well-known Latin text, he admonishes astrologers to
stay away from his prophecies. Why? Because they won't get
anything useful out of it. Even when he pretends to give them
planetary positions, he screws them.
*
But does he use some astrology in his texts? Yes, he does. He
has to, to give the change to his critics.
*
Back to your questions. "I am interested in knowing if you have
used any astrological data in your interpretation of Nostradamus,
and, if so, what data you used."
*
Given my previous comments, I have effectively used everything
Nostradamus gives us, astrological or otherwise, but not to
achieve an astrological purpose. Nostradamus' texts are
enciphered. To show that they are, he makes stupid astrological
statements. Example: He says that Spring starts when the Sun is
at 0°53' of Aries. Why? Because he has enciphered the time of the
unintended destruction of Paris and it happens at 3:53 a.m. So,
he uses the 53' of his stupid statement for that purpose.
*
That's why he published 353 quatrains in his first edition, all
numbered in Arabic numerals, contrary to his other editions,
numbered in Roman numerals.
*
He also speaks of his long astronomical calculation. What is it?
It is the Julian dating system, which he has invented. (Not to be
confused with the Julian Calendar.) It involves assigning a
number to every day of a long period of 7980 years. This nakes
calculating the interval between two dates much easier.
Astronomers use this system. Nostradamus uses it because the
calendar has had too many changes since his days.
*
You speak of the two eclipses between which Paris is destroyed.
These are the eclipse of the Moon of August 7, 2017, and the
total eclipse of the Sun of August 21, 2017. An interesting
feature of the eclipses of the Sun of August 11, 1999, and that
of August 21, 2017: their respective bands of totality pass near
the target of the ICBM which nukes Paris (1999), and near the
launch site of that ICBM (2017). And they are part of the same
Saros.
*
In a word: Paris is destroyed by mistake on Sunday, August 13,
2017, at 3:53 a.m., by the US military, and Nostradamus has
enciphered the circumstances of that event absolutely everywhere
in all of his books. His prophecy ends shortly after that event,
when the Julian Day Number reaches 8000 (September 3, 2017), or
when the Sun is eclipsed (August 21, 2017), or during the lunar
month starting with the Full Moon of August 7, 2017, which
Nostradamus calls the year 3797. The Julian Day Number is 7973,
the reverse of 3797. To point to this, he also reverses a word:
« pour d'yci a l'an 3 7 9 7 », where the word ici ought to have
been spelled... icy, just as the number 3 7 9 7 ought to have
been... 7 9 7 3. And the day after the thermonuclear blast, the
Julian Day Number is 7980, which is the number of years of the
Julian Dating system.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
February 7, 2012
*
=== ***@torfree.net ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================

[Kjell Pettersson]

Post by Claude Latremouille
Nostradamus' attitude towards astrology is complicated, First, he
pretends to be using it in his prophecies. He is lying. Why?
Because astrology gives him an excuse for having had visions of
the future. If astrology is involved, he does not have to face
his critics who might accuse him of consorting with the devil
(some did), and he can avoid calling himself a prophet of God,
something which the Church might not look too favourably upon.
*
Second, in a well-known Latin text, he admonishes astrologers to
stay away from his prophecies. Why? Because they won't get
anything useful out of it. Even when he pretends to give them
planetary positions, he screws them.

[---]

Post by Claude Latremouille
You speak of the two eclipses between which Paris is destroyed.
These are the eclipse of the Moon of August 7, 2017, and the
total eclipse of the Sun of August 21, 2017. [...]

As I understand you, Nostradamus did not intend his texts to be read
and interpreted from an astrological perspective, lest we (the
astrologers doing so) be cursed! But does he also say that we could
not "double-check" his prophecies by seeing if they match astrological
data for the interpretation? I am thinking like this, that an
astrologer could investigate your interpretation—not Nostradamus text—
and see how astrology matches prophecy.

Not that I have even an inkling on where to start, but should I get
one. :-)

/Kjell

[Claude Latremouille]

*
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:32:38 CST, Kjell Pettersson
<***@kjellpettersson.com> wrote about what
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson

Post by Claude Latremouille
Nostradamus' attitude towards astrology is complicated, First, he
pretends to be using it in his prophecies. He is lying. Why?
Because astrology gives him an excuse for having had visions of
the future. If astrology is involved, he does not have to face
his critics who might accuse him of consorting with the devil
(some did), and he can avoid calling himself a prophet of God,
something which the Church might not look too favourably upon.
*
Second, in a well-known Latin text, he admonishes astrologers to
stay away from his prophecies. Why? Because they won't get
anything useful out of it. Even when he pretends to give them
planetary positions, he screws them.

[---]

Post by Claude Latremouille
You speak of the two eclipses between which Paris is destroyed.
These are the eclipse of the Moon of August 7, 2017, and the
total eclipse of the Sun of August 21, 2017. [...]

As I understand you, Nostradamus did not intend his texts to be read
and interpreted from an astrological perspective, lest we (the
astrologers doing so) be cursed! But does he also say that we could
not "double-check" his prophecies by seeing if they match astrological
data for the interpretation? I am thinking like this, that an
astrologer could investigate your interpretation—not Nostradamus text—
and see how astrology matches prophecy.
Not that I have even an inkling on where to start, but should I get
one. :-)
/Kjell

*
Let's unpack this:
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
As I understand you, Nostradamus did not intend his texts to be read
and interpreted from an astrological perspective [...]

*
Nostradamus did not intend his texts to be understood before the
fact and that anyone would be able to predict the future using
his texts as is. And it is a fact (some disagree with me on this
point) that no one, absolutely no one, in over 400 years, has
ever been able to predict the future using his original texts. As
prophecies, they were and are perfectly useless.
*
Even the cases quoted to me pretending that an author did indeed
predict the future using them fail to see that the event was
already happening, or already had begun to happen, when the so-
called 'prediction' was made.
*
So, more than discouraging only astrologers, Nostradamus wanted
to discourage everyone from attempting to find the future in his
texts.
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
But does he also say that we could not "double-check" his prophecies by
seeing if they match astrological data for the interpretation?

*
As I have attempted to show in the few examples I have already
given, by giving misleading planetary positions, or pretending to
be giving planetary positions, he was preventing any "double-
checking" of his prophecy before the fact. After the fact,
everybody is smart and understands what he was talking about. So,
the key is not to match astrology with prophecy, but to prevent
any such match from being attempted *before the fact*.
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I am thinking like this, that an astrologer could investigate your
interpretation—not Nostradamus text— and see how astrology matches
prophecy.

*
My interpretation is worth the paper it is written on, especially
on the internet ;-)
*
As to what an astrologer might be able to do, he/she could verify
eveything I have stated, confirm that all the astrological and
other facts I have given match reality, but in so doing he/she
would not be able to "see how astrology matches prophecy", in
your words.
*
And this is because, in explaining the text, I would have pointed
out that the assumed astrology is not what it appears to be. It
is a device intended to mislead.
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
Not that I have even an inkling on where to start, but should I get
one. :-)

*
For what it is worth, I can relate how I started. For about 25
years, it never dawned on me that the texts I had come to know
almost by heart were enciphered and were hiding the prophecy. I
took them for what they appeared to be, warts and all, and tried
to make sense of them, just like my predecessors had done for
centuries.
*
Later, in October 1993, I got an idea which led to another, and
to another and, nine months later, I finally realized that all
these poems were enciphered.
*
Those who still are of the view that they are not so enciphered
are still playing a fool's game trying to match the prophecy with
reality. Nostradamus himself, in a rarely quoted text (rarely
quoted by these authors) indicates that his quatrains are much
too obscure to be understood and interpreted:
*
------- PAGE 05 ----------------------------------------------
LINE 01 d'vne naturelle faction : respondra quelqu'vn --------
LINE 02 qui auroit bien besoin de soy moucher,la rithme ------
LINE 03 estre autant facile,comme l'intelligence du sens -----
LINE 04 est difficile. Et pource,ô tres-humanissime Roy, -----
LINE 05 la plus part des quatrains prophetiques sont tel- ----
LINE 06 lement scabreux , que l'on n'y scauroit donner -------
LINE 07 voye ny moins aucuns interpreter , toutesfois --------
*
To answer your question more directly, I would say that you might
get an inkling as to how to start if you viewed the quatrains
which contain some astrological indications in exactly the same
way you ought to view those who do not. In my view, they are
meaningful gobbledygook, intended to be deciphered, not
interpreted.
*
Claude Latrémouille
February 10, 2012
*
=== ***@torfree.net ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================

[Kjell Pettersson]

Post by Claude Latremouille
*
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:32:38 CST, Kjell Pettersson
*
*>I am thinking like this, that an astrologer could investigate your

Post by Kjell Pettersson
interpretation—not Nostradamus text— and see how astrology matches
prophecy.

*
My interpretation is worth the paper it is written on, especially
on the internet ;-)
*
As to what an astrologer might be able to do, he/she could verify
eveything I have stated, confirm that all the astrological and
other facts I have given match reality, but in so doing he/she
would not be able to "see how astrology matches prophecy", in
your words.

I think I was unclear. What I mean is simply this: by erecting a
horoscope for the time and place your interpretation is about, would
that horoscope give the same story as your interpretation?

I have erected the chart for 3.53 A.M. August 13, 2017, Paris. It is
available here:

http://goo.gl/jSYLk

My question, as an astrologer, is whether or not this chart matches
the interpretation you have deduced from the texts of Nostradamus.
Admittedly, we do not know what the signature of the event would be
like, but we could make comparisions with other events of similar
nature and see if this chart is reasonable.

One thing I noted is that we have Cancer rising and the Moon is
conjunct Uranus in the tenth house. If my memory serves me right, the
chart for the first atom bomb over Hiroshima has Uranus on the MC.
This would be a weaker indication, but in a similar direction.

Somewhat unexpectedly the chart has Venus on the Ascendant.

Et cetera. One could go very much further in this. My question was
whether you have looked into THIS aspect of your interpretation. Given
that it is precise as to both time and place, a chart CAN be erected.

/Kjell

[Claude Latremouille]

*
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:39:49 CST, Kjell Pettersson
<***@kjellpettersson.com> wrote:
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I think I was unclear. What I mean is simply this: by erecting a
horoscope for the time and place your interpretation is about, would
that horoscope give the same story as your interpretation?
I have erected the chart for 3.53 A.M. August 13, 2017, Paris. It is
http://goo.gl/jSYLk
My question, as an astrologer, is whether or not this chart matches
the interpretation you have deduced from the texts of Nostradamus.
Admittedly, we do not know what the signature of the event would be
like, but we could make comparisions with other events of similar
nature and see if this chart is reasonable.
One thing I noted is that we have Cancer rising and the Moon is
conjunct Uranus in the tenth house. If my memory serves me right, the
chart for the first atom bomb over Hiroshima has Uranus on the MC.
This would be a weaker indication, but in a similar direction.
Somewhat unexpectedly the chart has Venus on the Ascendant.
Et cetera. One could go very much further in this. My question was
whether you have looked into THIS aspect of your interpretation. Given
that it is precise as to both time and place, a chart CAN be erected.
/Kjell

*
As you (still) speak of 'my interpretation', perhaps a little
Cryptography 101 is in order.
*
As I might already have indicated in some of the 16 articles I
have recently posted here, I have indeed attempted to INTRERPRET
Nostradamus' Prophecies for about 25 years, 1969-1994. This
process involves an explanation, a commentary, a justification
for each and every word used by Nostradamus in his published
texts, as is, no anagrams ma'am. It does not involve any
decipherment whatsoever and is entirely based upon the published
texts.
*
Then, starting in October 1993, and leading to August 1994, I
gradually realized that these so fucked-up texts were in fact a
cryptogram. They were hiding something. The process involved in
FINDING what was hitherto hidden therein is called a
decipherment, NOT an interpretation. So, I began to DECIPHER
these texts, using the probable word method, and applying the
encipherment/decipherment technique used by Nostradamus
throughout all of his books, i.e., the line-based cryptic
anagram.
*
At first, I found events from our past, already understood (by
others) to apply to well-known historical episodes, as these
other authors had understood the quatrains as they were. This
process confirmed that the quatrains were in fact cryptic
anagrams, four anagrams per quatrain.
*
Some time later, I began to find, hidden in these anagrams, bits
and pieces of an event which I did not know about. Let's call it
the Paris event. I did not *INTERPRET* it, I just *FOUND* it.
*
Did astrology help? Sure, it did. I FOUND that the event occurred
when Saturn was in Sagittarius. I FOUND that the event occurred
between two eclipses. I FOUND that the event occurred in the
Summer. I FOUND that the event occurred in August. I FOUND that
the event occurred on a Sunday. I FOUND that the event occurred
on the 13th. I FOUND that the event occurred at 3:53 a.m., or at
seven to four o'clock (both manners of indicating that time had
been used in the enciphered texts).
*
So, if you put all of this together, you get the Paris event
happening on Sunday, August 13, 2017, at 3:53 a.m. THIS IS WHAT I
FOUND, NO INTERPRETATION, MA'AM!
*
So, forgetting this business of interpretation, one might wish to
erect the astrological chart for that alleged event. just to see
if there is a link between what was so discovered and that chart.
*
Provided one does not start arguing about the Prophecy, because
it is pointless, as it is either true or false and no argument
will ever add anything to it, one can look at that chart. I did.
*
The link you gave above is not accessible on my text-based
browser. So, I have not seen the chart you made available.
*
The thermonuclear attack upon Paris poisons the city of its
plutonium for 24,000 years. Pluto, the planet involved in the
attack, is right where it ought to be, on the cusp of the VIIth
House of attacks.
*
As this configuration happens once a day, it does not prove
anything. It is just there. So, quit dreaming of correlations.
Astrology deals with events which happen only once, because
everything in the Universe happens only once; which is why
astrology cannot possibly be a science, because there cannot be
any such thing as the science of happenstance, i.e., of things
which happen only once.
*
Still, it is a 'useful' form of knowledge, especially concerning
the timing of events.
*
Claude Latrémouille
February 21, 2012
*
=== ***@torfree.net ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================

[Kjell Pettersson]

On Feb 21, 1:56 pm, ***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Claude Latremouille)
wrote:

I get what you say about not making an "interpretation". I guess that
is astrological parlance that I am bringing with me. I haven't
considered—until now that you brought it up—that it might not be
suitable for prophecy.

If you have made the chart, my chart would show the same as yours,
possibly with the Ascendant differing somewhat (my chart has an
Ascendant that is for "Paris", and you may very well have a more
precise location). "My" chart has Pluto one degree off the Descendant,
so I guess they are pretty much alike.

I think my view of what astrology can say is somewhat different from
yours, as I think it would be possible—at least in principle—to check
a chart and see what the moment is likely to hold. But that is
irrelevant, you have answered my question. And I didn't think of Pluto
on the Descendant, which, indeed, could be part of a signature
describing precisely the event you have deciphered.

/Kjell

Post by Claude Latremouille
*
*

Post by Kjell Pettersson
I think I was unclear. What I mean is simply this: by erecting a
horoscope for the time and place your interpretation is about, would
that horoscope give the same story as your interpretation?
I have erected the chart for 3.53 A.M. August 13, 2017, Paris. It is
http://goo.gl/jSYLk
My question, as an astrologer, is whether or not this chart matches
the interpretation you have deduced from the texts of Nostradamus.
Admittedly, we do not know what the signature of the event would be
like, but we could make comparisions with other events of similar
nature and see if this chart is reasonable.
One thing I noted is that we have Cancer rising and the Moon is
conjunct Uranus in the tenth house. If my memory serves me right, the
chart for the first atom bomb over Hiroshima has Uranus on the MC.
This would be a weaker indication, but in a similar direction.
Somewhat unexpectedly the chart has Venus on the Ascendant.
Et cetera. One could go very much further in this. My question was
whether you have looked into THIS aspect of your interpretation. Given
that it is precise as to both time and place, a chart CAN be erected.
/Kjell

*
As you (still) speak of 'my interpretation', perhaps a little
Cryptography 101 is in order.
*
As I might already have indicated in some of the 16 articles I
have recently posted here, I have indeed attempted to INTRERPRET
Nostradamus' Prophecies for about 25 years, 1969-1994. This
process involves an explanation, a commentary, a justification
for each and every word used by Nostradamus in his published
texts, as is, no anagrams ma'am. It does not involve any
decipherment whatsoever and is entirely based upon the published
texts.
*
Then, starting in October 1993, and leading to August 1994, I
gradually realized that these so fucked-up texts were in fact a
cryptogram. They were hiding something. The process involved in
FINDING what was hitherto hidden therein is called a
decipherment, NOT an interpretation. So, I began to DECIPHER
these texts, using the probable word method, and applying the
encipherment/decipherment technique used by Nostradamus
throughout all of his books, i.e., the line-based cryptic
anagram.
*
At first, I found events from our past, already understood (by
others) to apply to well-known historical episodes, as these
other authors had understood the quatrains as they were. This
process confirmed that the quatrains were in fact cryptic
anagrams, four anagrams per quatrain.
*
Some time later, I began to find, hidden in these anagrams, bits
and pieces of an event which I did not know about. Let's call it
the Paris event. I did not *INTERPRET* it, I just *FOUND* it.
*
Did astrology help? Sure, it did. I FOUND that the event occurred
when Saturn was in Sagittarius. I FOUND that the event occurred
between two eclipses. I FOUND that the event occurred in the
Summer. I FOUND that the event occurred in August. I FOUND that
the event occurred on a Sunday. I FOUND that the event occurred
on the 13th. I FOUND that the event occurred at 3:53 a.m., or at
seven to four o'clock (both manners of indicating that time had
been used in the enciphered texts).
*
So, if you put all of this together, you get the Paris event
happening on Sunday, August 13, 2017, at 3:53 a.m. THIS IS WHAT I
FOUND, NO INTERPRETATION, MA'AM!
*
So, forgetting this business of interpretation, one might wish to
erect the astrological chart for that alleged event. just to see
if there is a link between what was so discovered and that chart.
*
Provided one does not start arguing about the Prophecy, because
it is pointless, as it is either true or false and no argument
will ever add anything to it, one can look at that chart. I did.
*
The link you gave above is not accessible on my text-based
browser. So, I have not seen the chart you made available.
*
The thermonuclear attack upon Paris poisons the city of its
plutonium for 24,000 years. Pluto, the planet involved in the
attack, is right where it ought to be, on the cusp of the VIIth
House of attacks.
*
As this configuration happens once a day, it does not prove
anything. It is just there. So, quit dreaming of correlations.
Astrology deals with events which happen only once, because
everything in the Universe happens only once; which is why
astrology cannot possibly be a science, because there cannot be
any such thing as the science of happenstance, i.e., of things
which happen only once.
*
Still, it is a 'useful' form of knowledge, especially concerning
the timing of events.
*
Claude Latrémouille
February 21, 2012
*
   === CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
   ===========================